“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan interview Arnnon Geshuri, Chief People Officer at Snowflake and 8-year Tesla veteran, about building HR’s strategic authority through data analytics, his automate-augment-human AI framework, and why he recruits economists and data scientists alongside traditional HR professionals.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH ARNNON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINArnnon: linkedin.com/in/arnnongeshuriNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/-For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(0:00) Intro(1:12) Three Key Lessons from Working with Elon Musk at Tesla(3:36) Why Snowflake: Reinventing the People Function(4:33) The Three-Pronged AI Framework: Automate, Augment, Human-Only(12:02) Sponsor: Metaview(19:45) Data Analytics as the Backbone of HR(24:00) Building the Winning HR Team Portfolio(27:08) Speed Through Imperfection: Fast Pilots and Iteration(29:00) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan have a candid discussion with Silicon Valley operator Molly Graham on founder depression, imposter syndrome, executive team dynamics, and building business-first people operations at scaling companies.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH MOLLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINMolly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mograham/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Glue Club: https://www.glueclub.com/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:43) Origin of “Giving Away Your Legos”(02:28) Emotions at Work(02:49) Meet Bob the Monster(04:15) Founder Depression Reality(06:27) The Emptiness of Startups(08:00) Life as a Barter Economy(09:14) “I Can’t Do Math” - Professional Moron Strategy(12:00) Growth Solves All Problems(13:00) When Leaders Hate Each Other(14:20) 50% Executive Hiring Success Rate(17:00) 18-Month Executive Tenure(18:34) Business First, Not Happiness(21:00) Era of Excess Is Over(21:51) Best Interview Question(22:05) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today on HR Heretics, we’re excited to cross post a conversation from Metaview’s 10x Recruiting Podcast featuring Viet Nguyen, Head of Global Recuiting Operations of Vercel, on using AI to analyze top interviewers’ transcripts, extracting their unconscious patterns and building tools that scale interviewing excellence.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH VIET, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINViet: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vietnguyen6/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Vercel: https://vercel.com/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Progress Over Perfection(01:00) Why Throwing Messy Data at AI Actually Works(01:37) The Three-Hour Experiment That Changed Everything(02:38) Create Leverage Where Possible(03:30) Do Nothing vs. Do Something: The Real Choice(04:00) Sponsor: Metaview(04:14) Interview Begins: Meet Viet Nguyen(04:51) The Rejection That Led to Friendship(05:26) The Five-Year Tour of Duty in Recruiting Ops(06:37) From Zero Coding Skills to Building AI Tools(08:00) The Gaspar Effect: Decoding Your Best Interviewer(10:30) What Makes a Great Interviewer Great?(13:45) Building the Automated Back-Channel Reference Tool(17:20) The RAG Database That Knows Everyone(20:00) When AI Says “No Connections Found” (And Why That’s Okay)(23:15) The Webhook That Keeps Your Database Fresh(26:51) Perfect Is the Enemy of Progress(28:00) “Anybody Can Cook” - The Non-Technical Builder’s Manifesto(28:27) Automating Interview Debriefs: The Next Frontier(29:28) Real-Time Debrief Summaries: The Dream State(30:04) Where to Find Viet(30:33) Community Show and Tell: The Vision(31:15) We’re All Stupid Together (And That’s the Point)(32:05) Friday Night Recruiting Projects (32:18) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

 This episode with Jason James from Tezi briefly vanished from Spotify. Don’t ask us why. But it’s too good to not share again. So here’s Jason unpacking the future of recruiting. Please enjoy.Jason James doesn’t sugarcoat it: recruiting coordinators and sourcers won’t exist in 5 years. In this episode, James (Co-founder and COO of Tezi) sits down with Kelli and Nolan to discuss how to screen 3000 applicants in minutes, why most great resumes just rode the elevator up at hypergrowth companies, and why AI bias audits set a higher standard than humans ever could.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH JASON, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINJason: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasontezi/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Tezi: https://tezi.ai/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:55) Meet Max: The AI Agent Replacing Recruiting Busywork(03:16) AI Bias vs Human Bias: Which Is Fairer?(06:08) Human-in-the-Loop: AI Recommends, Humans Decide(07:34) AI Interviews at Top of Funnel: What Works, What Doesn’t(11:00) Standing Out in a Crowded AI Recruiting Market(14:26) Sponsors: Ethena & Metaview(17:18) “RCs and Sourcers, Find Something Else”(20:30) The New Grad Opportunity: Alpha in a Tough Market(22:23) “Riding the Elevator Up”: The Resume Pedigree Problem(24:26) How to Spot Resume Riders vs Real Contributors(26:00) 100-Hour Weeks and the 9-9-6 Culture Debate(30:00) “The Best Culture Is Growth”(31:00) Tezi’s Culture: Committed to Calm, Team of Adults(34:00) What’s Next for Tezi?(34:56) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this latest AI Corner, Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos joins Kelli and Nolan to discuss the “Trough of Disillusionment” in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows. Watch as Siadhal demonstrates Metaview’s AI sourcing, showcasing its intuitive, agent-based approach that moves beyond traditional Boolean methods.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—Metaview:https://www.metaview.ai/-For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:35) Why Metaview Built AI Sourcing(02:20) The Vision: Humans and AI Working Together(03:09) Technical Breakthrough: Browser Use and Computer Use(04:41) Beta to GA Launch Story(05:01) Promptless Sourcing Feature(06:36) Sponsor: Metaview(07:58) Demo(26:38) Data Sources and LinkedIn Compliance(28:01) Future: ATS Integration and Multi-Database Search(30:13) What’s Coming Next for Metaview(31:29) Product Development Philosophy(32:04) How to Try Metaview Sourcing(32:33) Closing This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan analyze why traditional bonus programs fail at early-stage companies, advocating for flexible sprint incentives and spot bonuses over rigid annual structures that create organizational debt.Support our Sponsor:Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—For coaching and advising inquire athttps://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction: The Bonus Program Question(01:04) The Cyclical Wave & Sales Incentives(01:42) Why Early-Stage Companies Struggle(02:46) The Coin-Operating Problem(03:26) The 96% Problem: Legacy & Recruiting Pressure(04:34) You Can’t Put the Toothpaste Back(05:30) Equity Over Bonuses(06:09) Inconsistent Application Across Teams(06:43) Walking It Back Is Brutal(08:06) Sponsor: Metaview(09:28) Technical Debt vs People Debt(11:10) Second Order Consequences(12:31) MBOs Are a Fable(12:53) The Solution: Sprint Incentives(14:04) Surprise and Delight: Spot Bonuses(15:08) Discretionary Budgets & Agility(15:54) Final Thoughts: Avoid People Debt(15:59) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan debate radical workplace transparency: eliminating private Slack messages. They explore tensions between cultural openness, practical communication needs, and effective use of asynchronous tools.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) The “No Private DMs” Rule(01:04) First Reactions: How This Would Actually Work(01:54) The Case for Transparency: Underground Slack Channels Are Toxic(02:35) The Reality Check: Leaders Still Need Private Conversations(03:42) Is Radical Transparency Just Performance Art?(04:20) The Productivity Problem: Slack Surfing vs Getting Work Done(05:11) Creating a “How We Slack” Document with Clear Rules(06:15) Using Public Channels to Develop Holistic Leaders(07:13) The Jensen Huang Model: Why He Doesn’t Do One-on-Ones(08:12) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(11:34) Hyper-Transparency from the CEO Builds Trust(12:31) It All Comes Down to Judgment(13:11) The Audio Message Revolution: Why Voice Beats Typing(15:20) Good vs Bad Audio Messages: It’s About Sender Judgment(16:15) The 10x Pace: Why Traditional Meeting Cadences Don’t Work Anymore(17:34) Final Thoughts: Experiment with Your Communication Style(17:46) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Sally Thornton, CEO and Founder of Forshay who offers a candid examination of fractional executive work, exploring trust barriers, adverse selection problems, pricing models, and why consulting acumen matters more than traditional executive experience.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH SALLY, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSally: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sallythornton/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Forshay: https://forshay.com/-For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:46) The Trust Barrier: Why Companies Resist Fractional Work(03:34) The TAM Debate and Market Dynamics Post-COVID(05:14) The Dirty Secret: There’s No Such Thing as Fractional Work(06:34) Sponsors: Ethena | Metaview(10:01) Who’s Buying and Why Finance Gets It(11:06) Let’s Talk Money: The 65/35 Structure and Market Rates(12:30) The Honeymoon Phase: Managing Boundaries and Expectations(14:44) How to Assess Fractional Executives: The 75% Rule(16:31) From Interim to Modular: How the Market Evolved(18:04) The Black Hole Question: Why Nobody’s Calling You Back(19:36) Network for Yourself: Nobody’s Managing Your Career But You(21:36) How to Sustain 15 Years: Running Experiments & Following Curiosity(22:31) Closing Thoughts: Agents for Executives Don’t Yet Exist(23:11) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Culture Amp CEO Didier Elzinga, revealing data-driven insights on building culture-first companies, balancing psychological safety with accountability, and prioritizing growth as engagement’s foundation.Support our Sponsors:Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.KEEP UP WITH DIDIER, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDidier: https://www.linkedin.com/in/didierelzinga/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Culture Amp: https://www.cultureamp.com/For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:30) From Harry Potter to Building Culture Amp(02:16) What Is a Culture-First Company?(03:19) The Coherency Matrix: Trust vs. Mission Orientation(04:40) Growth: The One Thing That’s Never Changed(05:36) Leaders Matter More Than Managers (The Data)(07:09) Don’t Bother Convincing People Who Don’t Get It(08:02) How Structured Reviews Closed the Gender Gap(09:17) Sponsor: Ethena | Metaview(12:39) Data Is Just the Start of Honest Conversations(13:28) Esther Perel: Leaders Don’t Know How to Say No(14:16) My Engagement Survey Mistake as CPO(15:32) Feedback Is Not a Gift, It’s a Workout(16:23) How We Run Culture Amp: Values and Growth(18:45) We Can’t Be Everything for Everyone(20:07) Storytelling: The Most Important Leadership Skill(22:07) Finding Your Authentic Narrative(23:32) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today’s essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Coinbase Chief People Officer LJ Brock reveals how the company’s mission-first philosophy, refusal to negotiate salaries, and rigorous talent density standards challenge conventional HR orthodoxy.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH L.J., NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINL.J.: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lbrock/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Coinbase: http://www.coinbase.com/For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:46) Banning Politics at Work(02:29) Backlash and Reality: “You’ll Never Work Again”(04:32) The Near-Death Moment(05:22) How Coinbase Creates Radical Ideas(06:34) Talent Density: The Future of Hiring Standards(09:04) CEO Approval for Every Hire(09:14) Real-Time Feedback: Eliminating Manager Bias(11:33) Performance Systems That Don’t Suck(13:34) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(16:43) Work Trials(15:37) Sponsor: Metaview(16:43) Work Trials: The 12-Week Internship Strategy(19:49) Single Pay Target(21:00)Executive Alignment on No Negotiation(22:03) Stock Grants: From Four Years to One Year(23:17) Building the Next Generation of CHROs(26:40) Closing This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s HR Heretics, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid analysis of H1B visa policy disruptions impacting tech hiring, then recap their Confluent People Team offsite with Colleen McCreary, featuring contrarian HR perspectives on compensation equity, organizational beliefs, and fostering intellectual disagreement.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:40) H1B Visa Impact on Tech(11:48) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(15:25) Confluent People Team Offsite Recap(20:37) Sponsor: Metaview(22:27) Contrarian HR Beliefs & Organizational Leadership(27:34) Fashion Roast: Is Silicon Valley Dressing Up?(29:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

On today’s Dear Heretics segment, Kelli and Nolan deliver candid, practical advice for Chief People Officers navigating their critical first 90 days, featuring real-world insights on building stakeholder trust, executing quick wins, and establishing strategic organizational influence.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:13) Three Core Goals for New CPOs(01:41) Common Fail States to Avoid(02:03) Over-Communicating with Your CEO(02:23) Building Executive Relationships Beyond One-on-Ones(02:58) Getting to the Ground Floor: The Modern Executive Approach(03:19) The Colleen McCreary Method: 100 One-on-Ones in 90 Days(04:26) Quick Wins and Board Relationship Strategy(04:44) Four-Pillar Framework in Action(05:34) Pre-Start Transparency: Setting Expectations Early(06:40) The Four Pillars: Listen, Execute, Strategize, Build(08:18) The Brutal Reality: 3X Speed for Three Months(09:15) Sprint vs Marathon: Managing Energy and Family Expectations(09:58) Reframing “S**t Shows” as Solvable Problems(11:22) The Critical Importance of In-Person Time(12:13) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(15:22) Building on Company Strengths vs Starting from Scratch(16:31) Team Building Strategy: Know Before You Walk In(17:47) Making “Unnatural” Efforts for Face-Time(18:33) Build Your Scaffolding or Die: The Team Priority(20:14) Ditch HR Speak: Talking Business, Not Corporate Vernacular(21:47) CEO Shadowing: What It Really Means(23:00) Real Partnership: Daily Communication and Quick Feedback Loops(23:59) Sponsor: Metaview(25:18) The Bait-and-Switch Problem in Executive Hiring(27:10) Market Reality: Nine-Month Average Tenure Crisis(29:21) Board Relationships and Air Cover Strategy(30:10) Building Your Narrative: Board Meeting Preparation(31:41) Documentation Strategy: Journaling and Whiteboarding(32:09) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan talks to Immigration attorney Nicole Gunara (Manifest Law) who analyzes the new $100,000 H-1B policy that sparked rapid industry adaptation across Silicon Valley, breaking down how this strategic shift creates different advantages for big tech versus startups while driving companies to explore innovative alternative visa pathways.Support our Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Check it out: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics* Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.* Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.* It only takes minutes to get up and running.Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH NICOLE, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNicole: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ngunara10/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Manifest Law: https://manifestlaw.com/Gary Tan’s LinkedIn post: A $100K H1B fee won't bother big tech…For coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:51) What Happened Friday Night: The $100K H-1B Bombshell(02:53) Monday Reality Check: What We Actually Know(04:16) Clear vs. Unclear: Exemptions and Renewal Definitions(07:49) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(10:58) Crisis Response Strategy: Audit, Pause, and Pivot(15:56) The Alphabet Soup: Alternative Visa Pathways(21:19) Sponsor: Metaview(23:08) The O-1 Opportunity: 94.5% Approval Rates Explained(24:43) The Startup Dilemma: Gary Tan vs. Big Tech Advantage(28:57) Strategic or Chaotic? The Department of Labor Clue(30:13) America's STEM Pipeline Problem: The Real Policy Driver(32:21) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Returning guest Bryan Power (Head of People, Nextdoor) talk about AI workplace adoption, contrasting executives who avoid AI as time-consuming with his dedicated approach of treating AI as teammates, scheduling one-on-ones with custom GPTs, and transforming workflows.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!Ethena is the compliance training platform built for modern workplaces. Visit goethena.com/heretics and get 10% off your first year.KEEP UP WITH BRYAN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINBryan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanpower/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Nextdoor: https://nextdoor.com—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:00) The Tinkerer vs. The Resisters(03:00) The AI Bubble and Workplace Resistance(05:00) Project Neighbor: Nextdoor's AI Initiative(07:00) Case Study: Building AI Training with ChatGPT(09:00) Mental Model Shift: AI as Teammate, Not Tool(10:00) Scheduling One-on-Ones with Custom GPTs(10:51) Sponsors: Ethena | Planful(14:01) Executive Offsite Planning: AI in Action(16:00) The Onboarding Problem: Context and Custom GPTs(18:00) Compensation GPT: Domain-Specific AI Applications(21:00) Output and Velocity: Gamma and Slide Creation(22:43) Sponsor: Metaview(24:37) Optional or Essential: The Future of AI Adoption(26:00) The Mass Extinction Event for Knowledge Workers(30:00) Creating Permission to Tinker(32:00) Restructuring Executive Time for AI(34:00) Corporate Lingo Roast(44:08) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Katelin Holloway, Founding Partner of Seven Seven Six. Katelin argues HR professionals possess essential early-stage investing skills, and advocates their transition from support roles to decision-making positions through founder relationship-building strategies.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH KATELIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINKatelin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katelinholloway/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS: Seven Seven Six: http://sevensevensix.com—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:27) How HR "Found" Katelin: The Accidental Career Path(02:02) Pixar University: Learning from World-Class People Operations(03:16) Meeting Alexis Ohanian: The Reddit Turnaround Story(04:12) When Employees Refused to Wear Company Swag(04:43) Why Hard Challenges Build Deeper Professional Bonds(05:42) From Boardroom to Back Room: The VC Industry Problem(07:24) Why Early-Stage Investing IS People Work(08:52) The "Talent Partner" Problem: Wasted Potential in VC(09:40) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(12:03) The Marc Andreessen Challenge: Selection vs. Support(13:23) Platform Shifts Are Disrupting Venture Capital(14:07) Product and People First: 776's Different Approach(15:30) The Tactical Playbook: How to Break Into Venture(15:49) Build Founder Relationships, Not VC Relationships(16:22) The "How Can I Help?" Problem: Why Most VCs Fail Founders(17:39) From Advisor to Angel: Getting Equity Without Cash(18:28) The Golden Rule: Genuine Help Must Come First(20:06) Ed Catmull's 5-Year Rule: Knowing When to Leap(21:57) Why the Smartest People Never "Figure It Out"(22:26) Closing: Building the Future of Venture Capital This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, Kelli and Nolan talk to Iain Roberts, Airbnb's Global Head of Employee Experience and discuss his transition from IDEO designer to Airbnb's CHRO, exploring how design thinking principles reshape organizational structure, collaborative leadership, and workplace policies in opposition to traditional HR practices.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH IAIN, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINIain: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertsiainNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Airbnb: http://airbnb.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:08) "Everything Needs to be Designed" Philosophy(02:48) Founder Mode: Leadership Through Collaboration(05:50) The One Roadmap Strategy(08:04) Prototyping Human Experiences(12:14) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(14:42) Live and Work Anywhere: The Contrarian Bet(18:12) Talent Strategy & Future of Work(20:19) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this latest installment of AI Corner, Kelli, Nolan and Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos discuss the "Trough of Disillusionment" in enterprise AI adoption, exploring the gap between inflated expectations and practical implementation realities in recruiting workflows.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview 10x Recruiting Podcast - instead of recycled LinkedIn takes, you get contrarian insights from operators who've actually built elite talent machines. Instead of theory, you get real tactics and metrics from leaders at Vercel, Coinbase, and Uber.Head to The 10x Recruiting Podcast for more interviews like this one: https://www.metaview.ai/resources/10x-recruitingKEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/siadhalNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction: The Trough of Disillusionment(01:41) The Dinner Revelation: "We Don't Do S**t"(03:31) MIT Study: 95% of AI Pilots Are Failing(04:19) "They're Doing It Wrong"(07:02) The Human Curse of Instant Gratification(08:51) Early Adopters vs. The Wait-and-See Crowd(10:46) The Expectations Correction(12:33) Sponsors: Metaview 10x Podcast | Planful(14:25) The 30-Minute Rule: Small Wins Add Up(15:23) Stop Scaring People(16:59) Enterprise Reality Check(19:11) The Four Buckets of AI Value(21:16) Compensation Revolution(24:06) The Future of Compensation Strategy(28:46) The Great Adoption Debate(32:29) Forward Deployed Engineers: The New Reality(33:29) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Kelli Dragovich and Nolan Church sit down with LinkedIn's VP of Talent Solutions Mark Lobosco to discuss their new "Hiring Assistant" - an agentic AI tool automating recruitment intake, sourcing, and messaging. Today, early adopters are saving 4+ hours per role, reviewing 62% fewer profiles, and seeing a 69% improvement in InMail acceptance rates. They also discuss how AI will affect recruiting roles, candidate requirements, and why LinkedIn profiles are about to get that much more critical.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH MARK, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINMark: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marklobosco/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(01:24) Introducing Hiring Assistant: LinkedIn's First Agentic Product(03:20) The ChatGPT Moment: Microsoft Partnership Changes Everything(05:30) Inside the Intake Process: From Chat Interface to Candidate Search(08:44) The Magic of Agentic Sourcing: "Go Get a Cup of Coffee"(10:06) Purple Squirrel Syndrome: Faster Feedback Loops for Hiring Managers(11:21) "I Love My Job and I Hate My Day": The Recruiter's Dilemma(12:06) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(14:34) LinkedIn Profile Optimization: The New Resume Reality(17:04) ATS Integration: The Next Generation of System Connect(18:33) The Beginning of the End of Sourcing(19:26) Charter Customer Success: Global Construction Company Results(22:30) AI Tool Overwhelm: What Does This Replace?(26:33) Product Access: Who Gets Hiring Assistant?(27:00) The Open to Work Banner Debate(28:12) Profile Pictures and Bias: Microsoft's Responsible AI Approach(30:22) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Dear Heretics is back! Kelli and Nolan explore strategic board engagement for people leaders, covering presentation frameworks, relationship building, and navigating the delicate balance between board influence and CEO loyalty.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:48) Dear Heretics: The Board Question(01:15) There Is No Best Practice(02:38) Know Your Level (Don't Be 27 at DoorDash)(03:49) If You Don't Set Strategy, Someone Else Will(05:34) The Carta Framework: Show Value, Ask for Help(06:30) Earn the Right Through Your CEO(07:28) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:00) Board Presentation Framework(11:00) Run It Like a Business: The QBR Method(11:51) Building Board Relationships: Start Early(13:00) They're Just F*cking People(14:00) Board Members Are Your Career Funnel(15:50) Start With One: The Relationship Strategy(17:16) The Loyalty Warning: Team CEO, Period(19:32) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

For today's essential Heretics 101 feature, we talk to David Heinemeier Hansson (aka DHH), creator of Ruby on Rails and co-owner & CTO of 37signals. He critiques DEI implementation and workplace wokeness, advocates political neutrality at work, and outlines his organizational philosophy emphasizing minimal management, creative constraints, and HR as leadership firewall.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coFor coaching and advising inquire at https://kellidragovich.com/HR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI platform built for recruiting. Our suite of AI agents work across your hiring process to save time, boost decision quality, and elevate the candidate experience.Learn why team builders at 3,000+ cutting-edge companies like Brex, Deel, and Quora can’t live without Metaview.It only takes minutes to get up and running. Check it out!KEEP UP WITH DHH, NOLAN + KELLI ON LINKEDINDHH: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-heinemeier-hansson-374b18221/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Ruby on Rails: https://rubyonrails.org/37signals: https://37signals.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:34) "I Want My Code to Sing": Why Programming Is Poetry(04:35) How We Built a Company That Runs Itself(07:34) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(08:34) The 40-Hour Work Week That Silicon Valley Hates(11:05) The Remote Work Wars: Why Both Sides Are Wrong(15:14) "No Politics at Work": The Two Weeks That Changed Everything(17:00) How Wokeness Held Corporate America Hostage(22:16) The Hardest Two Weeks of My Professional Life(25:28) The DEI Deception: Why Equity Isn't Equality(27:40) Why HR People Don't Suck (And Founders Need Them)(31:00) Final Thoughts: People Go Crazy When Work Is Everything(33:35) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com