“HR Heretics” | How CPOs, CHROs, Founders, and Boards Build High Performing Companies

This episode of HR Heretics dives into the treacherous waters of giving feedback to friends without capsizing relationships.Candid feedback or comfortable silence? Kelli and Nolan dissect the art of critiquing colleagues, challenging listeners to reconsider their approach to workplace honesty. Discover why your ego might be your own worst enemy, and learn how to transform awkward conversations into opportunities for growth.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—BOOK MENTIONED:"Ego is the Enemy" by Ryan Holiday:https://www.amazon.com/Ego-Enemy-Ryan-Holiday/dp/1591847818—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:13) Intro(01:14) A Real-World Example: Kelli's Feedback to Nolan(02:27) Nolan's Response: The Importance of Inquiry(04:56) Building Relationships Through Honest Communication(06:36) Ego as a Barrier to Effective Feedback(07:34) Challenging Perceptions: The Curious Leader(08:46) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(10:50) Learning from Blunt Feedback: Nolan's Robot Story(13:36) Using Humor to Ease Feedback Conversations(14:31) Overcoming Perfectionism and Job Security Fears(15:44) Reframing Feedback: Alternative Conversation Starters(16:42) The Golden Rule of Feedback: Reciprocity in Communication(17:58) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Amazon CEO Andy Jassy announces return to office policy, sparking debate on workplace culture and employee expectations in tech industry.Will Amazon's RTO policy lead to increased employee turnover and a decline in morale? Listen as Kelli and Nolan explore the implications of these changes on workplace culture, employee expectations, and the broader business landscape.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—RELATED EPISODE:Everyone’s Talking About Founder Mode—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS(00:20) Andy Jassy's Letter on Culture (01:50) Two Big Changes at Amazon (03:00) Amazon's Employee Growth(04:40) Innovation and In-Person Work (05:10) Trade-offs of Remote Work(06:00) Clarity in RTO Communications(07:56) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:10) Exceptions to RTO Policy(11:40) Top Performers and Exceptions (13:20) Business Reality vs Expectations This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Thinking of swiping right on a colleague? Find out with Kelli and Nolan if workplace romance is worth the potential awkward elevator rides and why mixing power and passion is a recipe for corporate disaster.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.--Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS(00:00) Intro(01:16) Workplace Relationships(03:01) Why Dating Within Reporting Chain is Improper(05:17) Company Policies on Office Relationships(09:15) Hypothetical: CEO Dating a Junior Employee(09:33) Sponsor: Planful | Metaview(13:31) Leaders Dating Employees from Different Departments(16:18) Disclosing Relationships Between Colleagues(18:29) Handling Unwanted Advances from Coworkers(19:02) The One-Ask Rule(20:04) Codifying Relationship Policies(21:38) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

You've got your daily team, the folks you work with every day, but then there's the executive squad. Patrick Lencioni’s "Five Dysfunctions of a Team" says that should be your true loyalty, but how does that translate into practice? Nolan and Kelli talk about navigating those tricky waters and avoiding toxic team vibes when the big boss throws down some tough choices.Explore how HR pros can keep things from blowing up when the executive team calls the shots. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RELATED BOOK:The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable by Patrick M. Lencionihttps://www.amazon.com/Five-Dysfunctions-Team-Leadership-Fable/dp/0787960756—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) The "First Team" Concept (01:09) Balancing Executive and Functional Teams (03:07) Importance of Organizational Alignment (05:58) Handling Team Disagreements with Executive Decisions (07:58) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:02) Avoiding Toxic Leadership Behaviors (11:44) Explaining Decisions to Teams (13:52) Value of Transparency in Leadership (15:11) Addressing Team Members' Concerns (17:01) Managing Team Turnover and Succession Planning (18:06) Preventing and Addressing Team Toxicity(18:36) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Is context switching hurting your HR productivity? Kelli and Nolan talk about how leaders effectively navigate multiple roles and explore practical techniques for maximizing productivity in HR to build an adaptable team.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—RELATED:Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:39) Challenges of Multiple Roles(01:45) Navigating Different Relationships(03:14) Setting Boundaries in Conversations(04:49) Balancing Work and Personal Life(05:36) Building a Strong, Adaptable Team(07:52) Maximizing Meeting Effectiveness(08:50) Prioritizing Tasks and Self-Care(09:00) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(10:36) Reducing Digital Distractions(11:33) Better Meetings(12:14) The Power of Phone Calls(14:33) Walking and Talking(15:45) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

US white-collar promotions are down 24% in Q1 2024, with a near 50% drop since 2022. What does this mean for employees and the job market?Kelli and Nolan discuss causes, including pandemic effects and company restructuring, and talk about strategies for retention and career growth in a restructured, doer-focused workplaces.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINK:Report: Promotions disappeared in Q1 2024—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction and Welcome (00:16) Promotion Data Analysis (01:15) Discussion on Promotion Trends (03:49) Impact of Economic Changes on Promotions (06:39) Future of Job Market and AI (07:50) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(09:55) Continued Discussion on AI and Job Market (16:27) Final Thoughts and Advice (16:43) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Guissu Baier, a talent expert at General Catalyst who navigated the treacherous waters of startup equity compensation at Instacart, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich challenging conventional wisdom about refresh grants, and revealing that most companies lack a clear strategy.Is it time to ditch the old-school "wait and see" approach and embrace a more performance-driven model?Listen to Guissu, Kelli and Nolan as they offer insights into how to bridge the gap and foster collaboration between legal and HR teams.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH GUISSU, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINGuissu: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guissu/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:General Catalyst: https://www.generalcatalyst.com/General Catalyst's Equity Refresh Survey:https://www.generalcatalyst.com/perspectives/equity-refresh-survey-2024Related Podcast:How Big Should Your Org Growhttps://hrheretics.substack.com/p/how-big-should-your-org-grow—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:13) Key Findings of the Equity Refresh Survey(06:03) Treating Equity as Carefully as Cash(07:11) Vesting Schedules and Equity as a Long-Term Incentive(08:23) The Debate on Vesting Cliffs in Refresh Grants(09:46)The Logic and Challenges of Refresh Grants(11:43) The Importance of Paying for Performance(14:34) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(16:40) Challenges in Designing Equity Refresh Programs(19:07) Different Approaches to Refresh Grants(25:24) Retaining Top Performers(28:51) Connecting New Hire and Refresh Ranges(29:25) Equity Choice and Fairness(30:49) Equity Trade-Offs and Innovation(32:57) Collaboration between HR and Other Departments(37:11) Facilitation as a Key Skill for HR Leaders(40:28) Branding and Executive Involvement in Training(43:30) The Reputation of Lawyers in the HR Profession(44:54) Risk Calculus and Cultural Risk(46:02) Communication as a Key to Problem Solving(47:37) One-Way Door and Two-Way Door Decisions(47:55) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich talk about ‘Founder Mode’ a concept coined by YC founder Paul Graham in a recent essay — based on a talk by Brian Chesky, founder of Airbnb. They discuss how founders feel gaslit by advice to delegate without micromanaging, and that the right approach IS a ruthlessly hands-on approach. The hosts explore the tension founders face between maintaining control and trusting hires, emphasizing the need for empathy. This is a sign that the paradigm is shifting, and all business leaders need to adjust.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.—Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to https://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/heretics—LINK:Founder Mode https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html—KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) What is Founder Mode?(03:59) Empathy for Founders(04:54) The Role of Executives and Operators(07:19) Blending Founder and Manager Mindsets(09:56) Defensiveness and Personal Growth(11:45) Sponsors: Planful | Metaview(13:50) Kelli’s Best Take Ever? This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Dr. Vijay Pendakur, DEI expert, author, and principal and founder of Vijay Pendakur Consulting, joins Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich to discuss the current pushback against DEI, the future of the movement, and how companies can find success in a shifting landscape. How can companies foster inclusion while avoiding divisiveness and proving business value? Vijay, Kelli and Nolan candidly discuss the future of corporate diversity initiatives amid pushback and the search for measurable ROI, and exchange ideas for how to evolve diversity initiatives for impact.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.🔥 Apply to join over 400 Founders and Execs in the Turpentine Network: https://www.turpentinenetwork.co/Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH VIJAY, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINVijay: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vijaypendakurNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:“Closing the Opportunity Gap” https://www.amazon.com/Closing-Opportunity-Gap-Identity-Conscious-Strategies/dp/1620363127 Watch out for “The Alchemy of Talent: Leading Teams to Peak Performance” available for pre-order: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Talent-Leading-Teams-Performance/dp/B0DCHB9RYZ/ref=sr[…]d=1724904614&refinements=p_27%3AVijay+Pendakur&s=books&sr=1-1TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (01:28) Current state of DEI and recent pushback from various sectors (03:12) Analysis of DEI investment timeline and systemic unfairness (05:26) Higher education's response to DEI legislation and demographic shifts(08:38) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo (09:58) Challenges in measuring DEI progress and impact (12:48) Misunderstandings and Semantics (17:55) Corporate vs. Social DEI (22:45) Sponsor: Metaview (26:38) Scope of care in corporations and how COVID impacted DEI initiatives (35:12) Challenges in measuring DEI impact and focus on hiring metrics (40:41) Team effectiveness and the role of inclusion in high-performance teams(45:00) Impact of diversity on team performance and manager effectiveness (50:25) Future of DEI programs and evolving role of Employee Resource Groups (ERGs) (53:38) Reframing DEI for business performance and organizational effectiveness(55:00) Discussion on colorblindness and meritocracy in business contexts (57:03) Critique of MEI framework and the need for ongoing DEI interventions (58:10) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich tackle knowing when it's time to leave a job -- considering factors such as energy levels, learning opportunities, and impact. They cover the art of giving notice, protecting your financial interests, and nurturing professional connections when moving to a new opportunity.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:55) Recognizing It's Time to Leave(03:54) The Importance of Networking and Taking Recruiter Calls(06:57) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(09:59) Job Tenure and Career Narratives(12:53) How to Put in Notice(16:55) Sponsor: Metaview(18:55) Vesting and Financial Considerations When Leaving(19:53) Maintaining Relationships After Leaving a Company(22:53) Closing Thoughts and Lessons Learned(23:01) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church sits down with Valentina Gissin, former Head of Talent at Bridgewater and current Chief People Officer at Garner. Valentina shares the lasting lessons and people practices from working under Ray Dalio at Bridgewater, Garner's unique approach to the interview process, and her approach to hybrid work, manager training, L&D, and performance reviews. Valentina offers an absolute masterclass in innovating hiring and people strategies.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH VALENTINA, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINValentina: https://www.linkedin.com/in/valentinagissinNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Garner Health: https://www.getgarner.com/Principles by Ray Dalio: https://www.principles.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:47) Valentina's Experience at Bridgewater(01:27) Dot Collector and Feedback System(09:38) Managing Hybrid Work Environments(11:27) Commitment to Remote Work and Hybrid Teams(16:21) Managing Global and Synchronous Work(18:15) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(20:03) Improving Interview Training through Recording(22:06) Getting and Giving Signal in the Interview Process(25:38) The Correlation Between Structured Critical Thinking Questions and Successful Performance(28:18) Creating a Feedback Culture at Garner(30:49) Sponsor: Metaview(31:03) The Role of Performance Reviews in Compensation and Data Gathering(36:21) Using Real-World Simulations in Manager Training(45:55) Designing a Function for Difficult Performance Situations at Garner(46:16) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this HR Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli talk about "back channels" in the hiring process.They dive deep into this controversial practice and how back channels can impact candidate selection, emphasizing the need for a thoughtful, mature approach that considers the full context of a candidate's experience and potential.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsKEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) - Intro(00:54) - Defining back channels as "underground mafia" of feedback (01:52) - The right way to do back channeling (03:03) - Maturity in back channeling conversations (04:12) - When to do back channeling (05:43) - Avoiding the "back channeling frenzy" (06:42) - Timing of back channeling in the hiring process (07:55) - Sponsors - Planful | Workvivo(10:48) - How to properly conduct a back channel inquiry (12:04) - Sponsor - Metaview(13:40) - Typical back channel communication methods (14:50) - Real example of a nuanced back channel situation (15:59) - The "family reunion" analogy for bias in back channels (17:18) - Importance of considering human growth in back channels (18:31) - Handling negative back channel feedback (20:05) - Using back channel feedback as a litmus test for candidates (20:53) - Criticism of board members' approach to back channels (21:51) - Shallowness in high-level back channel feedback (22:45) - Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan and Kelli are joined by Joelle Emerson, CEO of Paradigm, to discuss why diversity numbers aren't improving quickly in companies and the challenges in measuring DEI progress.This episode explores the complexities of measuring impact, discusses the trade-offs of long-term strategies, and offers insights for navigating the current backlash.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH JOELLE, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINJoelle: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joelle-emerson-4a24225Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Paradigm:https://www.paradigmiq.com/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:58) Paradigm's mission and work in diversity and inclusion (01:55) Discussion on slow progress in diversity representation (03:48) Long-term investments in diversity initiatives (06:52) Measuring progress and acknowledging small wins in DEI (10:47) Adapting DEI work in response to backlash (14:37) Importance of effective messaging in DEI efforts (14:48) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(17:26) Distraction from the Backlash(27:28) Sponsors: Metaview | Warp(27:55) Legal considerations and challenges in DEI work (30:51) Discussion on problematic hiring practices in DEI (34:43) Turning down clients who don't align with DEI values (36:37) The role of dedicated DEI teams in organizations (39:29) Echo chambers and polarization in DEI discussions (44:38) Trade-offs in DEI investments and hiring processes (47:38) Debate on blind auditions and diversity in hiring (49:45) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this HR Heretics segment, Nolan and Kelli discuss the dramatic shift in the tech industry's work culture. They explore how the once-glamorous perception of tech jobs, filled with lavish perks and easy success, has given way to a more challenging reality.While this transition is painful, it may ultimately lead to a healthier, more sustainable tech ecosystem with professionals who are truly committed to building the future.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(02:03) The Contrast: Past Tech Perks vs Current Reality(03:30) Changing Perceptions: From Love to Hate in Tech(04:43) Sponsor: Planful(05:41) Expectation vs Reality: The Tech Industry Illusion(07:51) First Major Downturn: Impact on Young Tech Workers(09:21) Silver Lining: Creating Better Leaders Through Adversity(11:28) The New Normal: Reaching Equilibrium in Tech Industry(12:11) Wrap(12:48) Sponsor: Metaview | WorkOS(15:30) Outro This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

Today Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss The New York Times article making waves this past week: "So Human Resources Making You Miserable". Nolan and Kelli dissect the article's claims, share their own experiences and what they're hearing from other leaders, and discuss the disconnect between HR and the rest of the org.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:New York Times: So, Human Resources Is Making You Miserable?:https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/03/business/human-resources-professionals-workplace.htmlReferenced book:Bad Therapy: Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up: https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Therapy-Kids-Arent-Growing-ebook/dp/B0CBYHTV2D—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:15) "HR Making You Miserable" Article(01:22) HR Community Reactions & The Past Few Years(02:43) HR vs. The Rest of Business(06:20) Taking Ownership and Spreading the Love(08:24) HR's Role & Shifting Expectations(11:00) Learning from Other HR Leaders & Changing the Mindset(13:08) Experimentation and Collaboration(14:23) Communicating with CEOs and Setting Boundaries(14:38) Sponsors: Metaview | Workvivo(15:08) Training Leaders and Changing the Culture(17:06) Relationship Debt and Resetting the Relationship(19:32) The Power of Mentorship and External Help(22:23) Sponsor: Planful(22:33) The Sixth Sense & Influencing Key People(24:54) Taking Responsibility & Shifting Your Worldview(26:33) Resilience and Managing Emotions(08:00) Focus on Solutions(30:00) The Impact of Personal Well-being on Work(31:48) Building Resilience & Prioritizing Yourself(33:10) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich weigh in on a listener's question (shoutout Karissa!) about implementing 'bar raiser' interview programs at her Series D company. Are they worth the hype, or just an HR trend? Kelli and Nolan dig in.You too can email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:21) Implementing a bar raiser interview process(00:57) Amazon's Bar Raiser Program(01:36) Rebranding the "Bar Raiser" Process(02:42) The Amazon Approach(03:24) Avoiding Bias & Alternative Approaches(04:46) DoorDash's Experience(06:00) Challenges & Trade-offs(07:18) Sponsor: Metaview | Workvivo(08:16) DoorDash's Shift From the "Bar Raiser" Program(10:18) Alternatives & First Principles(12:31) Addressing CEO Expectations(13:25) Bias & Homogeneous Cultures(14:44) The Role of CEOs & Founders(15:19) Diligence & Feedback(17:21) Going Slow to Go Fast(18:17) Misaligned Expectations(19:10) Start Small & Experiment(19:33) Wrap(19:47) Sponsor: Planful This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich sit down with Metaview CEO Siadhal Magos for his insight into how AI is transforming recruiting -- and creating unexpected leverage for teams that know how to use it.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH SIADHAL, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINSiadhal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siadhal/?originalSubdomain=ukNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Metaview: https://www.metaview.ai/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Introduction(06:51) The Pain Points of Traditional Hiring(10:59) Interviews are Broken(14:20) Conversations are Key(14:26) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(17:00) The Future of Hiring(20:00) Conversations in the Future(21:59) The Evolution of the Recruiter(24:34) Legal and Accuracy Considerations(25:57) AI as an Iron Man Suit(27:50) AI's Next Level: Detection & Trends(29:31) The Power of Data(30:41) Sponsor: Metaview | Warp(32:00) Metaview's Value Proposition(35:00) The Efficiency Drive(36:55) The Future of Hiring Tech(39:23) The Importance of Product Management(41:00) Metaview's Roadmap(44:01) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss how HR teams can break out from behind the curtain and be a proactive force for good within the organization.HR can be more than just a reactive function. Learn how HR teams can demonstrate their real impact on the business as Kelli and Nolan share tips for increasing visibility and showcasing your team's value. *Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(01:18) The Importance of Feedback(02:17) Mediocre vs. Amazing Work(03:07) Employee Awareness of HR Functions(04:41) Town Hall Presence: Communication and Transparency(05:01) Engagement Surveys(06:06) The Importance of Transparency - The "Sausage Making" Analogy(06:35) AMA Example - Comp Transparency(08:30) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(11:09) The Art of Compensation(12:19) Transparency is Scary but Necessary(13:00) Explaining the "Why" - First Principles(14:00) Time Commitment and Building Trust(15:18) Strategic Vulnerability and Humanization(16:40) Wrap This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich sit down with Chris Vasquez, Investor and Founder of Quantum Talent, and discuss the insane AI talent market, executive hiring, and the future of work in a world where AI is rapidly changing everything.Hear their insights on the dynamic AI talent market covering the evolution of tech trends, challenges in hiring, the changing dynamics of diversity and merit, and the race for top talent.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Metaview is the AI assistant for interviewing. Metaview completely removes the need for recruiters and hiring managers to take notes during interviews—because their AI is designed to take world-class interview notes for you. Team builders at companies like Brex, Hellofresh, and Quora say Metaview has changed the game—see the magic for yourself: https://www.metaview.ai/hereticsDiscover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).This episode is brought to you by Warp. Don’t let payroll and compliance hold your startup back: visit https://joinwarp.com/peel to get started and receive a $1000 gift card when your first run payroll.KEEP UP WITH CHRIS, NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINChris: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-vasquez-66137553/Nolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—LINKS:Quantum Talent: https://www.quantumtalent.io/Related Post:Alexander Wang’s LinkedIn Post on Meritocracy at ScaleThe Architect of the Paypal Mafia: Peterson Conway—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(00:25) The Evolution of Tech Recruiting(02:00) Impact of AI on the Job Market(03:41) Challenges and Opportunities in AI(06:06) The Competitive AI Talent Market(07:06) AI Strategies and Realities(07:57) The AI Gold Rush(10:39) Winning in the AI Talent War(22:01) Sponsor: Planful | Workvivo(25:51) Diversity and Merit in Tech(26:56) The Importance of Diverse Personality Traits(27:39) Meritocracy and Bias in Hiring(28:25) Challenges and Changes in Defining Diversity(29:42) The Role of DEI in Companies(31:38) Balancing Company Culture and Performance(36:03) Sponsor: Metaview | Warp(40:34) The Future of AI Executives(44:05) Advice for Job Candidates(50:10) Emerging Trends in Tech and Beyond(52:41) Conclusion and Final Thoughts This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com

In this episode of HR Heretics, Nolan Church and Kelli Dragovich discuss the reality of PIPs (Performance Improvement Plans). Are PIPs genuine efforts to help employees or a company CYA tactic? Kelli and Nolan explore the misuse of PIPs, arguing that they should be a last resort, not the first step in addressing performance issues. Listen to their insights as they discuss PIP alternatives, like the "fork approach," focusing on open communication and employee empowerment over PIPs.*Email us your questions or topics for Kelli & Nolan: hrheretics@turpentine.coHR Heretics is a podcast from Turpentine.Support HR Heretics Sponsors:Planful empowers teams just like yours to unlock the secrets of successful workforce planning. Use data-driven insights to develop accurate forecasts, close hiring gaps, and adjust talent acquisition plans collaboratively based on costs today and into the future. ✍️ Go to http://planful.com/heretics to see how you can transform your HR strategy.Discover Workvivo, Zoom’s employee experience platform, designed to delight your hybrid workforce. With dynamic and intuitive features people actually like using, Workvivo fosters a sense of belonging and boosts retention and productivity. Join Ryanair, Dollar General, and Virgin — head to https://bit.ly/hrhereticsworkvivo to book a demo (tell them Kelli and Nolan sent you).KEEP UP WITH NOLAN, + KELLI ON LINKEDINNolan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nolan-church/Kelli: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellidragovich/—TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Intro(03:12) Performance Improvement Plans (PIPs)(01:46) Pips As A Forcing Function And The Misuse Of The Process(05:06) The Misconception on PIPs(06:48) Sponsors: Planful | Workvivo(08:00) The "PIP or Package" Approach and its Alternatives(13:21) Surviving PIP(16:38) Advice for Employees Facing PIP This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit hrheretics.substack.com